Wednesday, May 24, 2006

"...actual proof of God..."

From the comments section of my latest post in the ASAB:

Also, wouldn't you think that if God REALLY wanted everyone to believe in him the proof would be undeniable instead of nonexistant? Afterall, if there really was actual proof of God all of these "debates" would vanish.
The poster may have thought s/he was being original, or not. It doesn't matter. I've heard this many times before. It puzzles me to no end.

I ask you all here, and the poster as well: What exactly would be "undeniable" proof? I'm strongly preferring answers from atheists and other skeptics here.

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Simon said...

If god gave me a bj, that would be pretty good proof.

Brucker said...

I'd love a BJ, too. Some of the best beer and pizza I ever had. Oh, wait, you mean...

Yes, very funny.

Any serious suggestions?

kurt said...

the first problem is establishing what God is thought to be. The instigator of creation? Master of the universe? Beyond time? An omniscient being? The cause of supernatural "miracles" in the Bible? An all-compassionate entity? Something that in some way bears a resemblance to man, or the most ephemeral and all-pervasive non-physical entity that is 'everywhere'? Is God something described in the Bible, or is God also something described in other religions, like the Hindu pantheon?

if someone gave me a list of definative features of what they're calling God, then perhaps a series of neccesary proofs could be defined.

I say "proofs" because if God is supposed to have several of the characteristics on the above list, it wouldn't do to simply prove one of them. That is, while one might be understandably awed by an act of conspicuous supernatural power (raising the dead, etc), that might leave unresolved other significant questions, like whether this entity is also, in fact, the creator of the universe, whether it is omniscient, etc.

anyway, I'd be happy to give it a shot, just let me know what characteristics you think an entity would have to be proven to have to be properly identified as God.

Brucker said...

Fair enough. It's good to lay down some guidelines. Let me suggest two possibilities, one loose and the other more strict:

1: Give a hypothetical undeniable proof for the existence of an intelligent being that created the universe with a purpose in mind.

2: Give a hypothetical undeniable proof of the existence of the God of the Bible. Complete adherence to all facts presented in the Bible is not necessary, but the following aspects must be shown: omniscience, "quasiomnipotence" (that is, absolute power over matter, space and time, but not neccesarily over logical foundations of truth), absolute benevolence, and is the inspiration for (if not the actual author of) the Bible.

Brucker said...

I'm closing this post in favor of the new one.